L'Origine des Berbères.

[myra21]

C'est vrai qu'il ya eu des expulsés au Liban et en Syrie ( Damas compte un quartier des algeriens)

Hé oui damas compte trois quartiers qui ont pour origines L'Algerie ce sont trois quartier qui se trouvent en prolongement l'un a l'autre ces quartiers se nommes : 1/ Hay-El-Maghrabiyines (les premiers arrivers en 1848 , 2/ Hay-El-Mouhadjirines (les immigrées) ce sont ceux qui sont arrivées aprés la mort d'El-Mokrani vers 1871/72 et aprés il y a le 3/ qui s'appelle Hay-Cheikh Mahiedine ou se trouve la mosquée de Mahiedinne et le tombeau de Mahiedinne qui se trouve au sous-sol de la mosquée
Mahiediennee est le non de L'Emir Abdelkader personnage tres respecté à Damas et particulièrement par la communauté Chrétienne.......

[Sarutobi]

Et il était quoi l'homme de Tafoughalt ou plutôt les car 180 squelettes ont été trouvés ? et ses descendants par la même occasion.

ce n'est pas parce que "Tafoughalt" est un nom a consonnance berbere que l'homme de tafoughalt en était un

le berbere est de descendance capsienne (civilisation chamite, dont la culture est l'ancêtre de la culture berbere)

l'homme de tafoughalt (ou ibéro-maurusien) n'était pas du tout chamito-sémitique. et on ne connaitra probablement jamais la langue que parlait cette population, car elle a été supplantée par la langue proto-berbere des capsiens lors de la révolution du néolithique

les plus anciens des imazighen remontent à la prehistoire, à ces tribus sont venus s'ajouter d'autres, originaires d'europe, d'afrique, du proche-orient, du caucase.

peut etre, mais ces apports de populations, que je qualifierais d'annexes, on put parfois très fortement modifier l'aspect socio-culturel du socle berbere présent depuis des millénaires déjà, mais anthropologiquement parlant il n'en demeure pas moins que l'immense majorité des maghrébins actuels (pour ne pas dire la totalité), qu'ils soient berberophones, arabophones ou autres, sont de souche exclusivement berbere

[Sigma]

merci pour le texte c'est tres enrichissant
juste les critiques : il y un décalage dans le temps quelqu'un parle de 3000 ans avant jesus et d'autre 200ans please précisé les dates

Merci encore

[SED120]

je suis originaire de l'ouest de l'algerie et il est fréquent dans cette région de tomber sur des personnes qui ons plutot le profile occidental que maghrebin dans tous ça il y a une explication logique
-debut du XVI siècle et fin du XV siècle
-expulsion de plus de 1 million de musulmans de la pénisule ibérique
(300 000 arabo-mauresques et 700 000 espagnole reconvertis à l'islam)
ces populations ons surtout peupler ce qu'ons peut définir le maghreb centrale (l'ouest de l'algerie et l'est du maroc)
une immigration massif qui aurai bouleverser la démographie ethnologique
une précision n'oublions pas que l'arabisation du maghreb centrale apparait au XVI siècle (arabiser par une dynastie berber ? )

[Galaad]

en syrie et au liban les gens ressemblent etrangement à nos berberes, beaucoups de libanais ont la même tête que nos chers kabyles, on trouve egalement chez eux beaucoups de rouquins et des blonds. nous pouvons etudier les syriens de la côte et les libanais, nul doute qu'ils sont apparentés à nos tribus berberes.

Quoi de plus normal puisque les ancêtres des Libanais sont les Phéniciens qui sont massivement venus en Afrique du Nord et ils étaient plutôt commerçants-marchands /artisans que guerriers. N'oublions pas que les Romains ont été aussi au Liban et à la Syrie. Le brassage ethnique qu'ils ont subi est proche des nôtres.

[absent]

une page interessante :
http://www.mondeberbere.com/histoire/camps/origines.htm


il y a quelques années avait paru une etude fort interessante d'un labo genetique anglais, il presentais les "meres" du monde (il y en avait 7 fondamentales je crois), qui peut nous en dire plus, j'aimerais savoir s'il y avait une mère nord-africaine, et comment ils l'on nommé (je crois qu'il y en avait une egyptienne, je crois me souuvenir d'une qui s'apelait genre Lilah ou un truc de ce tye là), c'était vraiment une etude très très interessante (rappelez-vous le labo avait même demandé aux gens de lui envoyer un echantillon sanguin pour analyse pour qui le souhaite, moyennant finance biensûr (y'a tjrs une affaire d'argent lol ))

[DrHouse]

je suis originaire de l'ouest de l'algerie et il est fréquent dans cette région de tomber sur des personnes qui ons plutot le profile occidental que maghrebin dans tous ça il y a une explication logique
-debut du XVI siècle et fin du XV siècle
-expulsion de plus de 1 million de musulmans de la pénisule ibérique
(300 000 arabo-mauresques et 700 000 espagnole reconvertis à l'islam)
ces populations ons surtout peupler ce qu'ons peut définir le maghreb centrale (l'ouest de l'algerie et l'est du maroc)

Je crois que c'est personne de type européens sont plus souvent des descendants de soldats ottomans (qui sont surtout serbes, albanais, bosniaque et grec)

[SED120]

l'ouest de l'algerie n'etait pas sous l'influence de l'empire ottoman,les ottoman
etait surtout présent a alger bidjaiia et oran l'ouest de l'algerie etait surtout sous le commandement des hallaouiines avant l'arrivée des français

[SED120]

je croit que l'afrique du nord par son positionement (zone tempon entre l'afrique noire et l'europe pas tres loin du moyen orient) à souvent été une zone de transit ou de passage, nous avons fait l'objet de plusieurs invasions
(romaine,grec,vandale,phenicienne,arabe,turc,espag nole,française qui sera le prochain???? peut etre les etats unis sous pretexte de combattre le terorisme:18::18::18 il faut comprendre qu'avec ces invasions notres langue et culture c'est modifié au meme titre que notres code genetique mais une chose est sur d'apres une etude scientifique notres code genetique est le meme (aussi bien chez les berberophones que les arabophones) aujourd'huit le but est de réapprendre notres histoires et oui c'est une réaliter nous sommes tous des berbers qu'ons le veuillent ou non c'est pour cela messieurs que je salut vos travaux et vos recherches l'histoire le prouve nous avons subit les invasions par faute d'union et de disipline et nous avons gagner (la guerre d'algerie) parce que nous etions unis et determiner a mourire pour une seul cause notres dignité et notres fierté si l'histoire peut nous rendres unis je dit oui tout de suite

[absent]

Y-chromosome DNA haplotypes in North African populations

Human Biology, Jun 2000 by Lucotte, Gerard, Aouizerate, Annie, Berriche, Sala


The frequency distribution of Y-chromosome haplotypes at DNA polymorphism p49/TaqI was studied in a sample of 505 North Africans from Mauritania, Morocco, Algeria, Tunisia, Libya, and Egypt. A particulary high frequency (55.0%) of Y-haplotype 5 (A2,CO,DO,F1,11 ) was observed in these populations, with a relative predominance in those of Berber origin. Examination of the relative frequencies of other haplotypes in these populations, mainly haplotype 4 (the "African" haplotype), haplotype 15 (the "European" haplotype), and haplotypes 7 and 8 (the "Near-East" haplotypes), permit useful comparisons with neighboring peoples living in sub-Saharan Africa, Europe, and the Near East.

KEY WORDS: Y-CHROMOSOME HAPLOTYPES, GEOGRAPHIC DISTRIBUTION, NORTH AFRICA, MEDITERRANEAN

Because they relate to paternal ancestry, variations in DNA sequences that are specific to the nonrecombinant part of the human Y chromosome are particularly interesting from an evolutionary point of view. The probes 49f and 49a (locus DYSI ), located at Yq.11.2 (Quack et al. 1988), are able to identify 18 genomic TaqI fragments (named alphabetically, A-R), most of them being male specific. Among these the A, B, C, D, E, and I fragments can be either present or absent in males, or show variations in size (Lucotte and Ngo 1985). In the first group studied (Ngo et al. 1986), which included 50 Caucasians, 15 Africans, and 10 Asians living in Paris, 16 combinations of these DNA polymorphisms, or haplotypes (numbered 1-16), were detected. The present study examines haplotype frequencies in populations of North Africa.

In pre-Neolithic times (about 7000-3000 BP) the Mediterranean and Red Sea coasts of North Africa were populated by white, Hamite-speaking peoples, who have come to be called Berbers and Egyptians. In Pharaonic Africa (3000 years BP) the population had suffered drastic changes, with agricultural Egypt having 1 million people. Climatic changes had dried northern Africa by around 8000-4000 years BP; the forest line had retreated towards the Equator from about the 16th parallel by 3000 years BP, and the Sahara had assumed the characteristics it has today. Heavy migrations towards the North sent people to the Mediterranean coast, the Iberian peninsula, and the Canary islands.

The population of North Africa has followed the general Maghreb demographic movements. In Neolithic times, a scattering of Berber pastoralists and cultivators existed there; however, they remained at a Neolithic level of civilization, while other Mediterranean peoples were evolving through the Bronze and Iron Ages. Around 1000 years BP, the Phoenicians came upon a stone-age Neolithic culture in the Maghreb; they established Carthage (in Tunisia) only to be overthrown by the Romans in 146 BP. At this time there were 100,000 Phoenicians and 500,000 Berbers in Tunisia, plus another 2.5 million Berbers in the rest of North Africa. During the 7th century CE, Arabs invaded North Africa, imposing their religion and language on the Berbers, a process that culminated with the Bedouin reaching the Maghreb in the 11th century. Later arrivals to North Africa in colonial times included the Portuguese and Spanish in Morocco; the French in Morocco, Algeria, and Tunisia; the Italians in Libya; and the Turks in Egypt.

A main problem of Mediterranean ethnography has been the lack of DNA markers from southern Mediterranean populations (Arnaiz-Villena et al. 1995). Bosch et al. (1997) have recently synthetized evidence from classical genetic markers in North Africa. In the present study, p49 TaqI Y-- haplotypes were studied in a sample of 7 North African populations, and haplotypic comparisons were made with other African, European, and Asiatic populations previously studied for these haplotypes. (Persichetti et al. [1992] studied a small sample of 34 unrelated Egyptian males for this haplotype.) The approach in the haplotype diversity measures adopted here extends our previous work on Y-haplotype distributions in Europe (Lucotte and Hazout 1996), using Shannon entropy (H) as a measure of heterozygosity, numbers of haplotype equivalents as expected H, and genetic distances as the difference between 2 entropies: the first being calculated after grouping the haplotype distributions of two compared samples, and the second corresponding to the weighted sums of the entropies calculated for each sample.

Subjects and Methods

Samples and Populations. All 505 samples studied (Figure 1) correspond to unrelated adult North African males, whose origin is based on the birthplace of their fathers and (at least) grandfathers. The Mauritanian sample is composed of 25 males, collected previously for anthropological studies concerning African populations (Lucotte et al. 1994). The Berber sample consisted of 74 Berbers native to Morocco and living near Marrakech. The main part of the North African sample is composed of 102 unrelated males (excluding those of Berber origins) born in Morocco, of 141 males from Algeria, and of 73 males from Tunisia, all living in Paris. Also included are 38 Libyan and 52 Egyptian males (originating from the northern part of Egypt), from whom blood samples were collected in their countries of origin.

[absent]

Haplotype Frequencies. The frequencies of the Y haplotypes in the 7 populations studied are given in Table 1. The main haplotype in North Africa is haplotype 5, having a frequency of 55% in the 505 samples studied. All other haplotypes found in the first French population studied are present in North Africa, but with variable percentages among populations.

Haplotype Diversity. Shannon entropy (or measure of information) Hi and number of haplotype equivalents N,,, are given in Table 2. Berber and Tunisian populations (Nq = 3.847 and 4.087, respectively) are more homogeneous for the number of haplotypes than Libyan and Egyptian populations (Nq = 6.377).

Genetic Distances and Bidimensional Representation. The distance matrix for the 7 populations is given in Table 3. Figure 2 shows a bidimensional representation of the matrix of distances according to the 2 first principal components, using a multidimensional scaling technique (SOFTWARES plus, personal program).

Y-haplotype variations between North African populations studied here are important: for example, obtained distance values are 0.051 between Algeria and Morocco, and 0.241 between Mauritania and Tunisia. This elevated value between Mauritania and Tunisia can be explained by the fact that some haplotypes (3 and 10), found in Mauritania, are absent in Tunisia; inversely, haplotype 12 is found in Tunisia only. Algeria occupies a central position in Figure 2, with genetic distances from other populations varying between 0.051 (with Morocco) and 0.104 (with Tunisia). In this representation, Algeria is similar to Morocco (0.051), to the Berbers and to Libya (both at 0.057); this similarity is probably a consequence of the elevated frequencies of haplotype 5 in all these populations: In this representation, Tunisia and Mauritania are the more divergent populations.

Discussion

Two major population groups are found in North Africa, Berbers and Arabs. Berbers are divided into several subgroups, the most important one including Berbers from Morocco. Moroccan Berbers belong to 3 main communities: northern Berbers living in the Rif mountains, central Berbers living in the Atlas mountains, and southern Berbers living in the anti-Atlas and the Souss valley. Tuaregs are Berber people, and Berbers are also found in Algeria, Tunisia, Libya, Egypt, and among some western residual groups in Mauritania and Senegal (Camps 1980). The origin of the Berber people has not been clearly established. They may be descendants of Capsian and later Neolithic peoples (Murdock 1959). We do know that the Berber kingdoms declined under the impact of Greek invasions, Roman Punic wars, and Roman settlements in the area (Julien 1978), and that the Arab presence dates from an Arab invasion of North Africa during the 7th century. All 16 Y-haplotypes were found in the 7 North African populations studied here, but with varying frequencies among groups. As has been found for Egypt (Persichetti et al. 1992) haplotype 5 is the major haplotype found in North Africa, being present at a frequency of 55% in our series. This haplotype is found at an elevated frequency (68.9%) in Berbers from Morocco, and at relatively lower frequencies in Mauritania (40%), Egypt (40.3%), and Libya (44.7%). These last 3 populations are characterized by a strong Arabic component. The non-- Berber population from Morocco and populations from Algeria and Tunisia showed intermediate values (57.8%, 56.7%, and 53.4%, respectively). An apparently increasing east-west cline in haplotype 5 frequencies is shown from Egypt to Morocco in the present study, probably reflecting both the historical Arabic expansions and the preponderance of Berbers in western countries.

After haplotype 5, the most commonly found haplotype in our series is haplotype 11, with a frequency of 7.7%, rising to 21.1% in Egypt. Interestingly, this haplotype is relatively frequent in some Indian populations (Lucotte et al. 1990) and in populations of Semitic origin (Lucotte and David 1992; Santachiara-Benerecetti et al. 1993). The preponderance of this haplotype has probably contributed to the differentiation of Egyptian and Libyan populations from others.

The third most commonly found haplotype in North Africa is haplotype 12, with a frequency of 7.1 % in our series, rising to a maximum value of 26% in Tunisia). This haplotype has been shown to be the major haplotype in Sardinians (Persichetti et al. 1992), and indicates a shared component of North African peoples with more northern Mediterranean peoples.

Haplotype 4, confined to sub-Saharan Africa (Torroni et al. 1990; Spurdle and Jenkins 1992; Lucotte et al. 1994), was present at a low frequency (4.4%) in our series, the most elevated value (8.5%) being observed in Algeria (the largest country in North Africa). Haplotype 15, mainly present in Western Europe (Ngo et al. 1986; Lucotte and Hazout 1996), was rarely found in North Africa (4.2%); its most elevated value (10.7%) was found in Morocco (a country with a strong French presence since the beginning of the century).

Haplotypes 7 and 8, frequently found in the Near East (Lucotte and David 1992; Lucotte et al. 1993; Santachiara-Benerecetti et al. 1993; Ritte et al. 1993; Lucotte et al. 1996), were present in our series at a mean level between 3.2% and 6.3%, respectively. Together they represent, in the populations studied, 17.3% of haplotypes in Egypt (the most eastern of the North African countries), 12.7% in Morocco, and 8.5% in Algeria (these last 2 countries having an important Semitic component). For Egypt, a similar value of 15% was obtained by Persichetti et al. (1992).

Acknowledgments. The authors acknowledge P. Galzot and N. Gerard for DNA extraction and hybridization experiments. We thank also F. Legrand for genealogical studies and blood samples of the Berbers studied here. We acknowledge also S. Hazout for help in the biostatistical treatment of data.

Received 25 November 1997; revision received 15 April 1998.

Literature Cited

Arnaiz-Villena, A., D. Benmamar, M. Alvarez et al. 1995. HLA allele and haplotype frequencies in Algerians. Hum. Immunol. 43:259-268.

Bosch, E., F. Calafell, A. Perez-Lezaun et al. 1997. Population history of North Africa: evidence from classical genetic markers. Hum. Biol. 69:295-311.

Camps, G. 1980. Berberes, aux marges de l'histoire. Toulouse, France: Archeologie horizons neufs.

Gautreau, C., C. Rahuel, J.P. Cartron et al 1983. Comparison of two methods of high-molecularweight DNA isolation from human leucocytes. Anal. Biochem. 134:320-324.

Julien, C.A. 1978. Histoire de l'Afrique du Nord. Paris, France: Payot Press.

Lucotte, G., and F. David. 1992. Y-chromosome-specific haplotypes of Jews detected by probes 49f and 49a. Hum. Biol. 64:757-761.

Lucotte, G., F. David, and S. Berriche. 1996. Haplotype VIII of the Y chromosome is the ancestral haplotype in Jews. Hum. Biol. 68:467-471.

Lucotte, G., N. Gerard, R. Krishnamoorthy et al. 1994. Reduced variability in Y-chromosomespecific haplotypes for some Central African populations. Hum. Biol. 66:519-526. Lucotte, G., and S. Hazout. 1996. Y-chromosome DNA haplotypes in Basques. J. Mol. Evol. 42:472-475.

Lucotte, G. and K.Y. Ngo. 1985. p49f, a highly polymorphic probe that detects TaqI RFLPs on the human Y chromosome. Nucl. Acids Res. 13:8285.

Lucotte, G., P. Smets, and J. Ruffle. 1993. Y-chromosome-specific haplotype diversity in Ashkenazic and Sephardic Jews. Hum. Biol. 65:835-840.

Lucotte, G., K.R. Sriniva, F. Loirat et al. 1990. The p49/TaqI Y-specific polymorphisms in three groups of Indians. Gene Geogr. 4:21-28.

Murdock, G.P. 1959. Africa, its people and their culture history. New York, NY: McGrawHill.

Ngo K.Y., G. Vergnaud, C. Johnsson et al. 1986. A DNA probe detecting multiple haplotypes of the human Y chromosome. Am. J. Hum. Genet. 38:407-418.

Persichetti, F., P. Blasi, M. Hammer et al. 1992. Disequilibrium of multiple DNA markers on the human Y chromosome. Ann. Hum. Genet. 56:303-310.

Quack, B., P. Guerin, J. Ruffle et al. 1988. Mapping of probe p49f to the proximal part of the human Y chromosome. Cytogenet. Cell Genet. 47:232.

Ritte, U., E. Neufeld, M. Broit et al. 1993. The differences among Jewish communitiesmaternal and paternal contributions. J. Mol. Evol. 37:435-440. Santachiara-Benerecetti, A.S., O. Semino, G. Passarino et al. 1993. The common Near-Eastern

origin of Ashkenazi and Sephardi Jews supported by Y-chromosome similarity. Ann. Hum. Genet. 57:55-64.

Spurdle, A., and T. Jenkins. 1992. Y chromosome probe 49a detects complex PvuII haplotypes and many new TaqI haplotypes in Southern Africans populations. Am. J. Hum. Genet. 50:107-125.

Torroni, A., O. Semino, R. Scozzari. 1990. Y chromosome DNA polymorphisms in human populations: Differences between Caucasoids and Africans detected by 49a and 49f probes. Ann. Hum. Genet. 54:287-296.

GERARD LUCOTTE,1,2 ANNIE AOUIZERATE,1 AND SALA BERRICHE1

1 International Institute of Anthropology, 1 place d'Iena, Paris, France.

2 Address for correspondence: Regional Center of Neurogenetics, Service of Neurology, Maison Blanche Hospital, 45 rne Cognacq-Jay, 51092 Reims Cedex, France.

Copyright Wayne State University Press Jun 2000
Provided by ProQuest Information and Learning Company. All rights Reserved

Lucotte, Gerard "Y-chromosome DNA haplotypes in North African populations". Human Biology. . FindArticles.com. 10Nov. 2008.

[absent]

voila donc ce que retient la science
les algeriens et les marocains sont en fait des peuples freres, ils sont totalement similaires genetiquement. le même peuple reparti entre deux etats. peu de sang européens en algerie, donc ceux qui disent que les kabyles qui ont les yeux bleus descendraient d'européens, ils ont pas raison (et on sait pas 'ils ont tord car la frontiere se trouve au cas par cas), bref une etude des plus interessante, mais faut lire toutes les pages et tous les chapitres, bon on sait qu'on va faire un tour à la grande bibliotheque de france un de ses jours...

[Psychos]

Un peuple qui ferme la frontière durant les années barbare dans les quelles l'Algérie a sombré, t'appelles ça un pays frère ? Pas moi.

Pour les kabyles, des théoriciens nazis disaient que c'était les dignes décendants de la race aryenne en Afrique du nord. Ils avaient plus d'estime pour les bérberes que pour les français.

Mais bon, tu vas me dire que le nazisme n'est pas une référence, et j'serrais sûrement d'accord.

[absent]

freres de sang et pas freres en politique cela s'entend...

[Psychos]

Tu fais bien de souligner la différence.


Pour revenir au sujet, à mon humble avis: La thèse des nazis se tient.


Étant à moiter Kabyle, dans mon entourage proche je peux citer un nombre de Kabyle blanc aux yeux bleu assez impressionnant. Et à Oran même, sans aller les chercher dans les coins reculés de la Kabylie...