Ya t'il eu une Arabisation forcee du Maghreb

[cherif_38]

@ Tokien

Moi je suis plus francisé. Je parle et je résonne en français, même si je maîtrise le berbere parfaitement.

[djamal 2008]

cherif

Une question : dans quelle langue vous rêver? je suis curieux.

[troll]

dans ce post ,le mieux aurait ete que chacun soit sincere et ne se caches pas derriere des etudes pour dire des choses que peut etre ils assume pas par manque de sincerite ,la question est pourtant simple et la reponse a mon avis doit etre son avis personnel sur cette question et le debat avancera mieux,je salue pour ca cherif 38 qui est restè lui sincere a ses convictions et a dit ce qu'il penses reellemen t des choses.
djamel2008:on reves tjrs dans sa langue maternelle sauf si on as une autre langue de force.

[Alain]

dans ce post ,le mieux aurait ete que chacun soit sincere et ne se caches pas derriere des etudes pour dire des choses que peut etre ils assume pas par manque de sincerite ,la question est pourtant simple et la reponse a mon avis doit etre son avis personnel sur cette question et le debat avancera mieux,je salue pour ca cherif 38 qui est restè lui sincere a ses convictions et a dit ce qu'il pense reellement des choses.

Ce que tu dis est une autre question :

Comment imaginez-vous l'arabisation du Maghreb ?

et non :

Ya t'il eu une Arabisation forcee du Maghreb

[humanbyrace]

(Pour en quelle langue reve la personne,personellement je me souviens tres bien ou j'ai eu des reves ou le dialogue est en arabe alors que la majorite est en turc et je pense que c'est du au fait de pratiquer l'arabe a la maison et regarder les chaines arabes)
Pour clore la parenthese sur la race humaine voila premierement les sous-especes de l'espece mediterranide avec une photo de proto-type pour servir d'illustration.

REMARQUE IMPORTANTE A LAQUELLE J'Y REVIENDRAIS EN PLUS DE DETAIL APRES: la classification ne se fait guere automatiquement en nordique pour le simple fait que la personne presente du blondisme et/ou des yeux clairs,en effet ces traits de blondisme et de yeux clairs peuvent etre vus dans tous les sous-espece de l'espece caucasoide(surtout la sous-espece mediterranide)et le blondisme peut meme etre vu dans l'espece austraoloide qui est distincte de l'espece caucasoide.

III. Caucasoid or Europid Subspecies
A. Mediterranid race 1. West Mediterranean or Iberid subrace (Spain, Portugal, Corsica, Sardinia, and coastal areas of Morocco and Tunisia; the Atlanto-Mediterranean peoples who expanded over much of the Atlantic coastal regions of Europe during the Mesolithic period were a branch of this subrace) 2. East Mediterranean or Pontid subrace (Black Sea coast of Ukraine, Romania and Bulgaria; Aegean coasts of Greece and Turkey) 3. Dinaricized Mediterraneans (Residual mixed types resulting from the blending of Mediterranids with Dinarics, Alpines or Armenids; not a unified type, has much regional variation; predominant element [over 60%] in Sicily and southern Italy, principal element in Turkey [35%], important element in western Syria, Lebanon and central Italy, common in northern Italy. The ancient Cappadocian Mediterranean subrace of Anatolia was dinaricized during the Bronze Age [second millennium B.C.] and is a major contributor to this type in modern Turkey.) 4. South Mediterranean or Saharid subrace (predominant in Algeria and Libya, important in Morocco, Tunisia and Egypt) 5. Orientalid or Arabid subrace (predominant in Arabia, major element from Egypt to Syria, primary in northern Sudan, important in Iraq, predominant element among the Oriental Jews)
(je ne poste pas de photos sur cette espece etant donne que ona droit a seul 6 photos)

B. Dinaric race (predominant in western Balkans [Dinaric Mountains] and northern Italy, important in the Czech Republic, eastern and southern Switzerland, western Austria and eastern Ukraine)

C. Alpine race (predominant element in Luxembourg, primary in Bavaria and Bohemia, important in France, Hungary, eastern and southern Switzerland)

D. Ladogan race (named after Lake Ladoga; indigenous to Russia; includes Lappish subrace of arctic Europe)

E. Nordish or Northern European race(various subraces in the British Isles, Scandinavia, the Netherlands and Belgium; predominant element in Germany, Switzerland, Poland, Finland and the Baltic States; majority in Austria and Russia; minority in France, the Czech Republic, Slovakia and Hungary; outlined in detail in the Nordish Race)

F. Armenid race (predominant element in Armenia, common in Syria, Lebanon and northern Iraq, primary element among the Ashkenazic Jews)

I. Indic or Nordindid race (Pakistan and northern India)

J. Dravidic race (India, Bangladesh and Sri Lanka [Ceylon]; ancient stabilized Indic-Veddoid [Australoid] blend)

Remarquez ques les photos comportent souvent une vue frontale,une vue a cote et une vue de derriere et ceci pour des ABC d'anthroplogie(forme crane,distance oreilles,front et autres mesures etc etc)

[troll]

moi je reves tjrs en kabyle

[humanbyrace]

Reste la photo de la sous espece dravidide(que je n'ai pu inclure etant limite a 6 images)




Voila des prototypes des autres especes(et non sous-especes de l'espece caucasoide comme les photos postes jusqu'ici)


I. Capoid or Khoisanid Subspecies of southern Africa
A. Khoid (Hottentot) race
B. Sanid (Bushmen) race
II. Congoid Subspecies of sub-Saharan Africa
A. Central African race 1. Palaecongoid subrace (the Congo river basin: Ivory Coast, Ghana, Nigeria, Cameroon, Congo, Angola) 2. Sudanid subrace (western Africa: Niger, Mali, Senegal, Guinea) 3. Nilotid subrace (southern Sudan; the ancient Nubians were of this subrace) 4. Kafrid or Bantid subrace (east and south Africa: Kenya, Tanzania, Mozambique, Natal)
B. Bambutid race (African Pygmies) C. Aethiopid race (Ethiopia, Somalia; hybridized with Caucasoids)

IV. Australoid Subspecies
A. Veddoid race (remnant Australoid population in central and southern India)
B. Negritos (remnants in Malaysia and the Philippines)
C. Melanesian race (New Guinea, Papua, Solomon Islands)
D. Australian-Tasmanian race (Australian Aborigines)

V. Mongoloid Subspecies
A. Northeast Asian race (various subraces in China, Manchuria, Korea and Japan)
B. Southeast Asian race (various subraces in Indochina, Thailand, Malaysia, Indonesia and the Philippines, some partly hybridized with Australoids)
C. Micronesian-Polynesian race (hybridized with Australoids)
D. Ainuid race (remnants of aboriginal population in northern Japan)
E. Tungid race (Mongolia and Siberia, Eskimos)
F. Amerindian race (American Indians; various subraces)

[humanbyrace]

Une fausse idee reçue est que: avoir une chevelure blonde et des yeux clairs necessite automatiquement ton inclusion dans la sous-espece nordide,or c'est faux.
En effet le blondisme et les yeux clairs peuvent se trouver dans des personnes appartenant aux autres sous-especes de l'espece caucaside et meme a l'espece australoide distincte completement de l'espece caucaside car il y a des traits physiques et caracteristiques phenotypiques et genetiques qui priment avant le blondisme et les yeux clairs.

Voila une photo d'un enfant du yemen appartenant a la sous-espece mediterranide quoique ayant des yeux clairs et du blondisme dans les cheveux



Voila une photo d'un nordide blond


Et voila celle d'un austraoloide blond

[humanbyrace]

Et ceci l'explique si bien Carleton Coon dans ce texte "mediterranean race"

http://dienekes.**********/texts/coonmed/
Carleton S. Coon on the Mediterranean Race
from C.S. Coon, Caravan : the Story of the Middle East, 1958, pp. 154-157

Mediterranean Racial Types: Spanish, Scottish, Italian, Greek, Portuguese, Arab, Bulgarian, Afghan. Phenotypically Mediterranean (brunet dolichocephalic, leptoprosopic, leptorrhine Caucasoids), differing in more specific traits, dress, sun exposure. Mediterranean physical types may not necessarily share common ancestry, since in the strictest sense, “Mediterranean” is only a phenotype. The early Neolithic pioneers were of this type, as Coon correctly notes.
Our area, from Morocco to Afghanistan, is the homeland and cradle of the Mediterranean race. Mediterraneans are found also in Spain, Portugal, most of Italy, Greece and the Mediterranean islands, and in all these places, as in the Middle East, they form the major genetic element in the local populations. In a dark-skinned and finer-boned form they are also found as the major population element in Pakistan and northern India.
The Sumerians were Mediterraneans skeletally. So were the ancient Egyptians, the Babylonians, the Children of Israel, and the Arabs of the early Islamic period whose skeletons I had the privilege of measuring at Nippur. A Mediterranean is a white man of variable stature - as whites go, usually short to medium; his bones are light, but strongly marked for muscle attachments if these muscles have been well developed through use. His legs are relatively long compared to his trunk, and his hands and feet rather small. His chest is relatively flat, his neck of medium length, his head of medium size, long-oval in shape with parallel sides; his face is small and delicate, with only slight bony ridges over the eyes. The upper part of his face is large in proportion to the lower part, so that when he is old his nose looks large for his jaw. Of all human being the Mediterranean has the most human, the most highly evolved, masticatory apparatus. His teeth are small, and so are the muscles that operate his jaw. His face is narrow, and his nose consequently is often prominent when compared to the lower-bridged and flatter noses of wider or longer-jawed races in Europe and other parts of Africa and Asia. The Mediterranean man is a relatively hairy fellow. His head is covered with a heavy growth of straight, wavy, or ringleted hair, usually fine in texture; rarely does the true Mediterranean go bald. His eyebrows are full, often meeting over the nose. His beard develops throughout adult life. While it is not the heaviest beard of all mankind, it is often a close runner-up. His body hair also increases throughout life and individually varies greatly in quantity.
As a rule his skin is some shade of white, from pink or peaches-and-cream to a light brown. Skin color should always be taken on some unexposed part of the body. Among Middle Easterners this is simple, because they cover as much of the body as is consistent with their work. The exposed skin color may be a dark brown, while the skin of the underarm is ten shades lighter. (The sun shines brightly in the Middle East.) While fair-skinned people are to be seen, they live chiefly in shaded bazaars and government offices, whence they rarely emerge into the dazzling light of day.
The Mediterranean’s hair is usually black or dark brown, while his whiskers may reveal a few strands of red or even blond. Blond hair may be seen, but it is the exception. Its presence does not require some invasion of Goths or Scyths or the miscegenation of Crusaders. One of the characteristics of the Mediterranean race is a minority tendency toward blondism. This is seen much more frequently in the eyes, since blond hair, which appears in infants, usually darkens as the hair coarsens with age.
Among Mediterraneans every shade of eye color appears. Coal black is exceptional, a dark or medium brown most common. Nearly a fourth of any sample, however, will have blue, gray or green eyes, usually mixed with brown in the iris pattern. Eyes do not darken with age; hence the greater prevalence of light eyes rather than blond hair among the adult. Like pink skin, blue eyes and blond hair appear most often among people whose work or social status keeps them inoors.....Who, then, are these Mediterraneans? Nearly all the Arabs, practically all the oriental Jews, most of the inhabitants of Egypt whatever their religion, most of the Berbers, most of the Persians proper, many of the Kurds, most of the Baluchis, a large number of the Afghans and many of the Turks of Anatolia and Azerbaijan. Nearly 80% of the individuals living in the Middle East and participating in its civilization (excluding Europeans) are Mediterraneans of one variety or another; of the other twenty per cent at least half probably show an increment of Mediterranean genes. The Mediterranean race, then, is indigenous to, and the principal element in, the Middle East, and the greatest concentration of a highly evolved Mediterranean type falls among two of the most ancient Semitic-speaking peoples, notably the Arabs and the Jews. (Although it may please neither party, this is the truth.)
The Mediterraneans occupy the center of the stage; their areas of greatest concentration are precisely those where civilization is the oldest. This is to be expected, since it was they who produced it and it, in a sense, that produced them.

[humanbyrace]

Finalement je pense personellement que tous les indices et preuves convergent que l'Afrique etait exclusivement peuplee de tribus "noire"(ou negroides)et ayant differents sub-haplotypes du haplogroupe E(car c'est difficle de penser que tous les sub-haplotypes E correspondent a des populations "noires" sauf le E-M81 qui lui devrait correspondre a une population "blanche"!!!!
Puis vinrent du nord les iberomaurussiens d'espece caucaside et ayant le haplotype R1 et ceci pendant le paleolithique.
Dans le tot neolithique vinrent d'orient les berberes d'espece caucaside et de haplotype J.
Puis dans le tard neolithique vinrent d'orient les arabes d'espece cauacside et de haplotype J.
Pour ceux qui se demandent comment peut on estimer que le haplotype E-M81 est un haplotype "noir" alors que la plupart de ceux ayant cet haplotype ne sont pas "noirs"
Je dirais tout simpelment a causse des metissages avec les peuples ayant le haplotype J et ceux ayant le haplotype R1.
En effet tu peux appartenire a l'espece caucaside tout en ayant le haplotype "noir"E ou celui "mongoloide"M a cause du metissage.

Mais biensur ça ne reste qu'une hypothese que seul la science peut confirmer ou rejetter dans un future proche.

[humanbyrace]

Si vous permettez un poste un peu leger pour illustrer la probable evolution humaine du Maghreb selon l'hypothese avancee dans le post precedent.
On a en premier lieu les ethiopides au haplotype E


(notez le fait que les maghrebins excellent dans les epreuves de demi fond grace peut etre a cet heritage genetique tres ancien de leur socle originel ethiopide du haplotype E)
+
les marussiens au haplotype R1


+

les berberes au haplotype J

+
les arabes au haplotype J


=

[humanbyrace]

Maintenant revenons aux cartes de repartition geographique du Haplogroupe E(Correlie avec les populations "noires")


Et celle du Sub-haplotype E-M81(un des sub-haplotypes appartenant au haplogroupe E[voire carte d'en haut])Le plus present dans le Maghreb.




Et juxtaposant ces deux cartes avec les photos des Selections Marocaines et Algerienne postees dans le post precedent(et en concordance avec les constatations connues de la presence plus importante-en comparaison avec celle en Algerie-dans la population Marocaine des Traits negroides) comme le soutient justement la photos de la selections Marocaine(ou l'influence "negroide" est plus prononcee que celle de la selection Algerienne)on peut penser que l'hypothese avancee par cet anthroplogue Europeen parait plus au moins une possibilite plausible.

En tout cas seul la science pourrait dans un future proche trancher categoriquement sur cette question.

[absent]

Traits negroides

ça me choque de tels termes !
aujourd'hui on dit plutôt traits bantoues...

fait quelques efforts humanbyrace !

[Sarutobi]

ça me choque de tels termes !
aujourd'hui on dit plutôt traits bantoues...

fait quelques efforts humanbyrace !

je ne vois pas ce qui te choque..... ce sont des termes scientifiques

[absent]

oui des termes scientistes qui remontent au nazisme et aux ideologies colonialistes du 19e siecle !

negroide > negro !!!

aujourd'hui les scientifiques moderne et sans nostalgie raciste et racisante disent "populations bantou" !!